Anyone flown X-C down the east coast way out over the Atlantic?

I'm new to the east coast and I'm interested in flying from NC to Florida.
The direct route would take me a good ways out over the Atlantic. I'm not
concerned about flying over way, just curious as to what issues I'm about to
encounter with ATC.

I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed as
direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?

Thanks.

John Doe > wrote:

> I'm new to the east coast and I'm interested in flying from NC to Florida.
> The direct route would take me a good ways out over the Atlantic. I'm not
> concerned about flying over way, just curious as to what issues I'm about to
> encounter with ATC.
>
> I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed as
> direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?

Just out of curiosity, what is the type of aircraft you are using for this
planned trip?

--
Peter
























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"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> John Doe > wrote:
>
>> I'm new to the east coast and I'm interested in flying from NC to
>> Florida.
>> The direct route would take me a good ways out over the Atlantic. I'm
>> not
>> concerned about flying over way, just curious as to what issues I'm about
>> to
>> encounter with ATC.
>>
>> I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed
>> as
>> direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?
>
> Just out of curiosity, what is the type of aircraft you are using for this
> planned trip?

Haven't decided yet, probably either a Turbo Arrow or a Twin Commanche.

John Doe > wrote:

> Haven't decided yet, probably either a Turbo Arrow or a Twin Commanche.

Ok, I apologize for pointing this out, since you mentioned that you were
not concerned about the flight other than what the ATC procedures were, but
because of a few recent high-profile over-water crashes, I have been
fascinated about the time/distance difference between over-water and
over-land routes, when there is a choice.

Using Jepp's FlightStar and a Bonanza V35 aircraft profile, I quickly
flight-planned two routes, one direct and one over land. I assumed KWEN
(Craven Cty, NC) as a departure and KPBI (Palm Beach, Fla) as the
destination to get a large over-water route.

A direct route from KEWN to KPBI, a total distance of 527 nm, results in
about 400nm over water. Using the Bonanza V35's aircraft profile with a
true airspeed of 175 kts (at 10,000 ft), Jepp calculated the route with a
total time of three hours. Of that three hour route, 2hrs 40 minutes of
that would be over water.

The over-land route remained just over the coast, flying from
KEWN to just northwest of the Brunswick (Georgia) VOR and then to KPBI.
Total distance was 621 nm and total time was 3 hours, 30 minutes.

Difference in time between the two routes? Only 30 minutes. Among all of
the concerns I would have about that particular over-water route would be
the thought of getting stuck on the easterly side of a line of tropical
t-storms and having no land options.

Again, sorry for going against your original post, but I thought the time
difference was interesting enough to post.

--
Peter
























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I don't know.

I fly from Durham to Tampa and Miami and sometimes Key West. At first I
thought about the over water route (for reasons that escape me now) when
going to FL.

Since then I discovered
1) Tampa is an over-land flight
2) Flying at max-glide from shore is as far as I want to fly out into
the Atlantic on this route
3) St. Simons Island (KSSI) is a fine fuel and feed stop (loaner cars,
nice FBO building, restaurants, interesting ramp on busy days). Worth
the fuel premium over say, Waycross GA (a good fuel stop).
4) the biggest obstacle to a direct flight and minimum fuel is FL
convection.

Just some thoughts.

John Doe wrote:
> Anyone flown X-C down the east coast way out over the Atlantic?
>
> I'm new to the east coast and I'm interested in flying from NC to Florida.
> The direct route would take me a good ways out over the Atlantic. I'm not
> concerned about flying over way, just curious as to what issues I'm about to
> encounter with ATC.
>
> I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed as
> direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?
>
> Thanks.
>
>

John Doe wrote:
> "Peter R." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>John Doe > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm new to the east coast and I'm interested in flying from NC to
>>>Florida.
>>>The direct route would take me a good ways out over the Atlantic. I'm
>>>not
>>>concerned about flying over way, just curious as to what issues I'm about
>>>to
>>>encounter with ATC.
>>>
>>>I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed
>>>as
>>>direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?
>>
>>Just out of curiosity, what is the type of aircraft you are using for this
>>planned trip?
>
>
> Haven't decided yet, probably either a Turbo Arrow or a Twin Commanche.

I've made the trip many times single-engine from RDU (Raleigh-Durham), but I've
always stayed over land. With the Twinkie the calculation might be different.

Along the airway that goes just off the coast, I think I calculated that I
could, or nearly could, stay within gliding distance of land if the winds were
right and I picked a high-enough altitude. Never done it that way, though.

The overland distance just doesn't seem to be enough longer to make much of a
difference. YMMV

Dave

I fly V1 CHS to CRG regularly in an Single engine aircraft. I do fly
high. 10K or higher. V1 has a dog leg at Savannah (tybee intersection if
I recall correctly). No more than 10 NM off shore. Quite reachable from 10K.
Michelle

John Doe wrote:

>Anyone flown X-C down the east coast way out over the Atlantic?
>
>I'm new to the east coast and I'm interested in flying from NC to Florida.
>The direct route would take me a good ways out over the Atlantic. I'm not
>concerned about flying over way, just curious as to what issues I'm about to
>encounter with ATC.
>
>I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed as
>direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>

I have flown SSI to PBI.
ATC will try to get you to fly offshore if you file the shoreline route.
With each frequency change, I was given an amended clearance which I
declined. The comments section of my flight plan contained the notice
"NO OVERWATER ROUTING ACCEPTED, NO FLOATATION GEAR ON BOARD".
ATC does not get this information from FSS unless they request it.
ATC personel are not pilots and do not understand that light GA aircraft
cannot glide from offshore routes to the beach.
Do not accept an offshore amended clearance.

jsmith wrote:

> Do not accept an offshore amended clearance.
>

.... unless you want one (as the OP apparently does).

I assume you are referring to V3. V3 is 5 miles max from the shoreline
between SSI and PBI. from 7 or 8k up, that is a 5:1 glide. I fly that
route in my Maule if winds are acceptable.

I think the original poster may have been thinking V437. I don't do
that one.

jsmith wrote:
> I have flown SSI to PBI.
> ATC will try to get you to fly offshore if you file the shoreline route.
> With each frequency change, I was given an amended clearance which I
> declined. The comments section of my flight plan contained the notice
> "NO OVERWATER ROUTING ACCEPTED, NO FLOATATION GEAR ON BOARD".
> ATC does not get this information from FSS unless they request it.
> ATC personel are not pilots and do not understand that light GA aircraft
> cannot glide from offshore routes to the beach.
> Do not accept an offshore amended clearance.
>

I'd do V1 too but I have to admit to chickening out and flying a cheater
route VFR that stays within 5 miles. Probably doesn't add 5 miles if that.

Michelle P wrote:
> I fly V1 CHS to CRG regularly in an Single engine aircraft. I do fly
> high. 10K or higher. V1 has a dog leg at Savannah (tybee intersection if
> I recall correctly). No more than 10 NM off shore. Quite reachable from
> 10K.
> Michelle
>

Can't speak from experience, but in your shoes I would (1) take the twin,
and (2) equip the airplane the same way my Skylane-owning friend equips his
when flying the Greenland route to Europe: Life raft, exposure suit, all
manner of signaling devices and handhelds.

Bob Gardner

"John Doe" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Anyone flown X-C down the east coast way out over the Atlantic?
>
> I'm new to the east coast and I'm interested in flying from NC to Florida.
> The direct route would take me a good ways out over the Atlantic. I'm not
> concerned about flying over way, just curious as to what issues I'm about
> to encounter with ATC.
>
> I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed as
> direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?
>
> Thanks.
>

jsmith wrote:

> I have flown SSI to PBI.
> ATC will try to get you to fly offshore if you file the shoreline route.
> With each frequency change, I was given an amended clearance which I
> declined. The comments section of my flight plan contained the notice
> "NO OVERWATER ROUTING ACCEPTED, NO FLOATATION GEAR ON BOARD".
> ATC does not get this information from FSS unless they request it.
> ATC personel are not pilots and do not understand that light GA aircraft
> cannot glide from offshore routes to the beach.
> Do not accept an offshore amended clearance.
>

In an instrument groundschool I took the instructor told a war story of
flying a 172 IFR up the NE coast and ATC tried to route him way out
over the water. He declined that route, no flotation on board, etc. and
ATC said OK, we'll give you vectors to keep you over land and away from
traffic. A while later while flying the vectors he came to a hole in
the clouds and realized they had vectored him well over the water, like
out of sight of land (this was before the days of GPS, etc).

On 7/7/2005 12:16, xyzzy wrote:

> jsmith wrote:
>
>> I have flown SSI to PBI.
>> ATC will try to get you to fly offshore if you file the shoreline route.
>> With each frequency change, I was given an amended clearance which I
>> declined. The comments section of my flight plan contained the notice
>> "NO OVERWATER ROUTING ACCEPTED, NO FLOATATION GEAR ON BOARD".
>> ATC does not get this information from FSS unless they request it.
>> ATC personel are not pilots and do not understand that light GA aircraft
>> cannot glide from offshore routes to the beach.
>> Do not accept an offshore amended clearance.
>>
>
> In an instrument groundschool I took the instructor told a war story of
> flying a 172 IFR up the NE coast and ATC tried to route him way out
> over the water. He declined that route, no flotation on board, etc. and
> ATC said OK, we'll give you vectors to keep you over land and away from
> traffic. A while later while flying the vectors he came to a hole in
> the clouds and realized they had vectored him well over the water, like
> out of sight of land (this was before the days of GPS, etc).
>

Wow, must have been before the days of positional awareness as well ;-\

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

> I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed as
> direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?

My experience is flying overwater in the Gulf of Mexico, so may not
apply. However my experience is that direct routings IFR overwater are
generally not available at low altitudes. You will be put on an airway
routing. If there is a convenient airway, great - if not, you may not
save much by going overwater.

VFR, you can pretty much do what you want - legally. If you penetrate
the ADIZ, you will need a DVFR flight plan. My experience with these
is that if the various warning areas (which are, of course, not
regulatory) are hot (and many are hot all the time) FSS and ATC will do
everything they can to keep you from going through them. One refused
to let me file a DVFR flight plan because VFR was not recommended (it
was clear all the way).

You can fight it out, of course, but you won't save any time (once you
consider how long it will take you to fight it out) over accepting the
airways routing.

Michael

xyzzy wrote:
> In an instrument groundschool I took the instructor told a war story of
> flying a 172 IFR up the NE coast and ATC tried to route him way out
> over the water. He declined that route, no flotation on board, etc. and
> ATC said OK, we'll give you vectors to keep you over land and away from
> traffic. A while later while flying the vectors he came to a hole in
> the clouds and realized they had vectored him well over the water, like
> out of sight of land (this was before the days of GPS, etc).

When I wouldn't accept the victor airway/waypoint routing, they tried to
get me to fly the magnetic heading for the same features. I continued
to fly the route I had filed and acknowledged the assigned heading each
time they asked. Strong crosswinds that day.

I flew Tampa to Fayetteville direct on an IFR flight with a friend who is a
CFI. The route took us about 20 nm offshore near Brunswick and Savannah.
No big deal with ATC. We were in a Bonanza.

One thing to keep in mind when assessing the risks: much of the Georgia
coastline would be highly unsuitable for an emergency landing. It's all
swamp and river inlets. So gliding to the coast won't be enough. In some
areas you'd need to glide another 5 or 10 miles inland. We were both strong
swimmers, so we figured we'd glide close to shore and then ditch it.

I've also followed the coast VFR and it was a bit annoying. Several very
active restricted areas and MOAs. Going offshore is easier from a routing
perspective.

"John Doe" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Anyone flown X-C down the east coast way out over the Atlantic?
>
> I'm new to the east coast and I'm interested in flying from NC to Florida.
> The direct route would take me a good ways out over the Atlantic. I'm not
> concerned about flying over way, just curious as to what issues I'm about
> to encounter with ATC.
>
> I'd like to file either VFR or IFR depending on the weather and proceed as
> direct as I can for fuel. Is ATC going to give me any hassle?
>
> Thanks.
>

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
m...
>I assume you are referring to V3. V3 is 5 miles max from the shoreline
>between SSI and PBI. from 7 or 8k up, that is a 5:1 glide. I fly that
>route in my Maule if winds are acceptable.
>
> I think the original poster may have been thinking V437. I don't do that
> one.
>

Actually I was thinking more direct from RDU to TIX which takes you well
east of V437.

"Ed H" > wrote in message
...
>I flew Tampa to Fayetteville direct on an IFR flight with a friend who is a
>CFI. The route took us about 20 nm offshore near Brunswick and Savannah.
>No big deal with ATC. We were in a Bonanza.
>
> One thing to keep in mind when assessing the risks: much of the Georgia
> coastline would be highly unsuitable for an emergency landing. It's all
> swamp and river inlets. So gliding to the coast won't be enough. In some
> areas you'd need to glide another 5 or 10 miles inland. We were both
> strong swimmers, so we figured we'd glide close to shore and then ditch
> it.
>
> I've also followed the coast VFR and it was a bit annoying. Several very
> active restricted areas and MOAs. Going offshore is easier from a routing
> perspective.
>

Thanks. I think I found the answer to my question. Obviously IFR or DVFR
flight plan.

My next trip will probably be to the Bahamas so I'm starting to research
international flights as well.

You can legally do that VFR, but probably not IFR. It looks like you would
be passing through several Warning areas and possibly some restricted areas.
If the warning areas are cold, and they have been turned back over to
center, they will let you transit IFR. The areas are usually hot except
late at night and weekends, depending on military activity. Those warning
areas can be particularly busy during military exercises and are frequently
used for live fire of guns and missiles.

If you go VFR, make sure you file the appropriate flight plans or you might
find a fighter escort that was scrabled to figure out who you were. You can
be billed for the fighters' flight time if you have not followed the rules
on ADIZ penetrations.

Paul


"John Doe" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
> m...
>>I assume you are referring to V3. V3 is 5 miles max from the shoreline
>>between SSI and PBI. from 7 or 8k up, that is a 5:1 glide. I fly that
>>route in my Maule if winds are acceptable.
>>
>> I think the original poster may have been thinking V437. I don't do that
>> one.
>>
>
> Actually I was thinking more direct from RDU to TIX which takes you well
> east of V437.
>

I just can't my head around flying out over the Atlantic for that
particular flight. The great circle is 453 while a dogleg over KSSI is
473. That 11 mins in my putt putt.

There would need to be an island full of the scantily clad or something
to motivate me.

John Doe wrote:
> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>I assume you are referring to V3. V3 is 5 miles max from the shoreline
>>between SSI and PBI. from 7 or 8k up, that is a 5:1 glide. I fly that
>>route in my Maule if winds are acceptable.
>>
>>I think the original poster may have been thinking V437. I don't do that
>>one.
> Actually I was thinking more direct from RDU to TIX which takes you well
> east of V437.
>
>